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Post by Detroit Red Wings GM on May 5, 2021 8:13:20 GMT -8
Some GMs have come to me and said they would rather not deal with the AHL. They mentioned in previous sim leagues they didn't have the AHL and had a set up like a taxi squad as the minor leagues for each team.
What would a taxi squad set up look like,
1. Each team would have 7-20 roster spots as their minor leagues. Not sure what the minimum or maximum roster amount would be.
2. No Minor League Sim, so no season performance upgrades/downgrades each year.
3. Players in minors would only be able to get upgrades each year by teams using APU on them. There would also be no downgrades for players in minors until they are past a certain age.
4. Each team would get more than the current amount of APU. This would be decided by the admin/mods.
5. Waivers and sending guys to minors would still work the same.
Basically it would eliminate the AHL Sims and the performance upgrades/downgrades year to year for AHL. Players would be only be upgradeable using APU.
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 5, 2021 8:42:33 GMT -8
I actually quite like the performance upgrade work in the AHL, because it makes it more realistic that an AHL'er could have a shot in making it into the NHL the next season after a really good year in the minors.
I always think of it as like a Ray Whitney scenario, as he was on the San Diego Gulls his 'rookie' year, scored 90 points, then became a regular for the Sharks for the next 5 years, with some stints back in the IHL to improve. And we've already seen some AHL success stories, and I hate to use him as an example again, but Steve Moses went from being an absolute nobody to scoring 40 goals in the NHL on the third line primarily.
So, I don't mind things staying the same at this current time.
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 5, 2021 9:04:36 GMT -8
I like the old system personally think the ahl is a waste of time especially after 2 seasons. If there in the ahl for more than 2 seasons coming out of the draft they just turn into 3rd liners at best but most likely 4th liners
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 5, 2021 9:10:48 GMT -8
I actually quite like the performance upgrade work in the AHL, because it makes it more realistic that an AHL'er could have a shot in making it into the NHL the next season after a really good year in the minors. I always think of it as like a Ray Whitney scenario, as he was on the San Diego Gulls his 'rookie' year, scored 90 points, then became a regular for the Sharks for the next 5 years, with some stints back in the IHL to improve. And we've already seen some AHL success stories, and I hate to use him as an example again, but Steve Moses went from being an absolute nobody to scoring 40 goals in the NHL on the third line primarily. So, I don't mind things staying the same at this current time. Lol that’s cuz you have a man crush on him like Kruze with Ryan Smyth. 40 goals to get a +2 almost a waste having him steal a roster spot from one of your young guys. 95% of the guys in the ahl are useless. I was one of the guys who brought up getting rid of the ahl and having a better system. |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 5, 2021 9:27:15 GMT -8
I actually quite like the performance upgrade work in the AHL, because it makes it more realistic that an AHL'er could have a shot in making it into the NHL the next season after a really good year in the minors. I always think of it as like a Ray Whitney scenario, as he was on the San Diego Gulls his 'rookie' year, scored 90 points, then became a regular for the Sharks for the next 5 years, with some stints back in the IHL to improve. And we've already seen some AHL success stories, and I hate to use him as an example again, but Steve Moses went from being an absolute nobody to scoring 40 goals in the NHL on the third line primarily. So, I don't mind things staying the same at this current time. Lol that’s cuz you have a man crush on him like Kruze with Ryan Smyth. 40 goals to get a +2 almost a waste having him steal a roster spot from one of your young guys. 95% of the guys in the ahl are useless. I was one of the guys who brought up getting rid of the ahl and having a better system. I wouldn't call it Man Crush... I'd say 'Mutually Beneficial Relationship', thank you very much. |
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Post by Nashville Predators GM on May 5, 2021 10:04:06 GMT -8
I don't see how the other system is any better.
I prefer having the option to develop guys in the AHL system. It adds a bit of realism to it. You can mix up your rookies with some solid vets to get them points and a chance to develop.
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Post by Chicago Blackhawks GM on May 5, 2021 13:19:00 GMT -8
I like both systems. I think it's up to the simmer really. If he doesn't mind doing the work, I think AHL is cool. Though it is kind of a waste of time to upgrade a 32 year old 72 to a 75 because he played well. He's still a minor league jobber lol. Meh...either way.
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 5, 2021 13:45:39 GMT -8
I don't see how the other system is any better. I prefer having the option to develop guys in the AHL system. It adds a bit of realism to it. You can mix up your rookies with some solid vets to get them points and a chance to develop. The old system we used to use you could develop whoever you wanted. The new system is just whoever performs |
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Post by Nashville Predators GM on May 5, 2021 13:52:58 GMT -8
I don't see how the other system is any better. I prefer having the option to develop guys in the AHL system. It adds a bit of realism to it. You can mix up your rookies with some solid vets to get them points and a chance to develop. The old system we used to use you could develop whoever you wanted. The new system is just whoever performs Which is far more realistic than arbitrarily giving guys upgrade points. |
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 5, 2021 14:09:13 GMT -8
The old system we used to use you could develop whoever you wanted. The new system is just whoever performs Which is far more realistic than arbitrarily giving guys upgrade points. Maybe I just think the ahl system is useless and 95% of the guys are just a waste of time. Especially as more and more seasons are simmed |
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Post by Arizona Coyotes GM on May 5, 2021 23:30:02 GMT -8
I actually quite like the performance upgrade work in the AHL, because it makes it more realistic that an AHL'er could have a shot in making it into the NHL the next season after a really good year in the minors. I always think of it as like a Ray Whitney scenario, as he was on the San Diego Gulls his 'rookie' year, scored 90 points, then became a regular for the Sharks for the next 5 years, with some stints back in the IHL to improve. And we've already seen some AHL success stories, and I hate to use him as an example again, but Steve Moses went from being an absolute nobody to scoring 40 goals in the NHL on the third line primarily. So, I don't mind things staying the same at this current time. I get where you're coming from, but for the large part people don't care about 95% of their AHL roster and complete randos shooting up are pretty rare. If this new system was a thing you probably would've had Moses on your extended roster and boosted him anyways because he's a meme player that you like. |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 6, 2021 7:54:48 GMT -8
I actually quite like the performance upgrade work in the AHL, because it makes it more realistic that an AHL'er could have a shot in making it into the NHL the next season after a really good year in the minors. I always think of it as like a Ray Whitney scenario, as he was on the San Diego Gulls his 'rookie' year, scored 90 points, then became a regular for the Sharks for the next 5 years, with some stints back in the IHL to improve. And we've already seen some AHL success stories, and I hate to use him as an example again, but Steve Moses went from being an absolute nobody to scoring 40 goals in the NHL on the third line primarily. So, I don't mind things staying the same at this current time. I get where you're coming from, but for the large part people don't care about 95% of their AHL roster and complete randos shooting up are pretty rare. If this new system was a thing you probably would've had Moses on your extended roster and boosted him anyways because he's a meme player that you like. I think that's a bit of a poor argument to make, considering the current vote is 10-3 in favor of keeping the system as is. Now, is that just a case of people not wanting to go to a different system? Perhaps. But for me, I still love the concept of the AHL, building a roster to win the Calder Cup, and the possibility of making someone out of a probable nobody. Maybe things need to change in terms of getting better upgrades for the older talent so they have a shot of being an NHL regular somewhere. So, I think the problem needs to be fixed in relation of making the GM's care a hell of a lot more about the AHL, rather than just replacing it with a taxi squad or a pool of players who could get called up if an injury occurs. I think not caring for the minors shows laziness as well, but I won't get into that. Each GM is their own, and they can do what they please. |
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 8:11:23 GMT -8
Just so everyone knows this would bring you more mlus and most likely eliminate the 2nd round. Which would make the off-season faster and smoother. You wouldn’t have to have a full ahl roster. This would give you the option who you wanted to develop wouldn’t have to rely on ahl performance and then use your mlus when said player doesn’t perform. The mlu max would also most likely be bumped up to 80 and maybe 82 for goalies like it used to be. We’ve been discussing this in a private discord chat some guys are on board and some are not. And also the ahl performance upgrades this year were fucked and they won’t be so generous in following seasons.
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 8:12:19 GMT -8
I get where you're coming from, but for the large part people don't care about 95% of their AHL roster and complete randos shooting up are pretty rare. If this new system was a thing you probably would've had Moses on your extended roster and boosted him anyways because he's a meme player that you like. I think that's a bit of a poor argument to make, considering the current vote is 10-3 in favor of keeping the system as is. Now, is that just a case of people not wanting to go to a different system? Perhaps. But for me, I still love the concept of the AHL, building a roster to win the Calder Cup, and the possibility of making someone out of a probable nobody. Maybe things need to change in terms of getting better upgrades for the older talent so they have a shot of being an NHL regular somewhere. So, I think the problem needs to be fixed in relation of making the GM's care a hell of a lot more about the AHL, rather than just replacing it with a taxi squad or a pool of players who could get called up if an injury occurs. I think not caring for the minors shows laziness as well, but I won't get into that. Each GM is their own, and they can do what they please. Lol I don’t care about the ahl and then in hockleague last year I won the Calder cup somehow lol |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 6, 2021 9:11:13 GMT -8
Just so everyone knows this would bring you more mlus and most likely eliminate the 2nd round. Which would make the off-season faster and smoother. Offseasons don't need to be faster or smoother, in my opinion. There are other leagues that take twice as long for their offseasons, and they still have their retention of GM's. It's all about how things are delivered and how they keep their GM's active in the offseason. We don't need to eliminate the second round as well. That is quite honestly a dumb idea. Then again, I'm an advocate of adding extra rounds to the draft, thus more prospects, but they would be auto drafted after teams sent a list by round 3. If no list is sent, BPA. Simple as that. The point I'm trying to get at is that we don't have to simplify things to make this league more enjoyable. I don't know about the rest of the league, but the complexity of what we have currently works just fine, and we don't need to fix it. It isn't broken. It's just some GM's are getting lazy and don't want to worry about extra players to sign and maintain, which is unfortunate. Let's encourage them not to be lazy instead. |
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 9:43:53 GMT -8
Just so everyone knows this would bring you more mlus and most likely eliminate the 2nd round. Which would make the off-season faster and smoother. We don't need to eliminate the second round as well. That is quite honestly a dumb idea. Then again, I'm an advocate of adding extra rounds to the draft, thus more prospects, but they would be auto drafted after teams sent a list by round 3. If no list is sent, BPA. Simple as that. Hell no lol we don’t need anymore rounds look at all the useless players already on the free agents list. And there’s already a lot of young guys there that aren’t sign no need to add to the pool of non useful players. I think the ahl is useless and a waste of time. Haven’t really seen any stars or superstars come from it. All 3rd/4th line guys maybe a 2nd liner. Most guys who are drafted in the top of the 1st end up playing in the nhl so they don’t even sniff the ahl. Plus after say season 5 or 6 they become even more useless as everyone knows the league starts getting stale and people want reboots. Hopefully we can get to season 8-10 before that happens though |
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Post by Detroit Red Wings GM on May 6, 2021 9:46:26 GMT -8
We don't need to eliminate the second round as well. That is quite honestly a dumb idea. Then again, I'm an advocate of adding extra rounds to the draft, thus more prospects, but they would be auto drafted after teams sent a list by round 3. If no list is sent, BPA. Simple as that. Removing the 2nd rd of the draft is to do more with creating players and the time it takes to do so. I like and I hate the AHL because I'm a GM and I'm the simmer. As a GM in the league, I like the AHL and everything that goes with it. As the simmer of the league, I dislike the AHL because it can be time consumming if teams don't have their rosters up to date and at times it seems way more work than it's worth. |
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Post by Nashville Predators GM on May 6, 2021 9:51:46 GMT -8
Is there an option to do a hybrid version of this?
Teams who want the AHL to continue and count for their development can do so. Those who do not, can use the extra upgrade points.
In terms of keeping the AHL going, the teams who do not want to go forward, just have leftover AHL'ers signed and done with. The ones who want to manage continue to sign the guys they want and develop the picks that they want.
Or would this cause more work? I feel it might be less as the handful of guys who don't want the AHL, you can skip for doing upgrades thus eliminating going through all rosters.
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Post by Detroit Red Wings GM on May 6, 2021 9:57:39 GMT -8
Is there an option to do a hybrid version of this? Teams who want the AHL to continue and count for their development can do so. Those who do not, can use the extra upgrade points. In terms of keeping the AHL going, the teams who do not want to go forward, just have leftover AHL'ers signed and done with. The ones who want to manage continue to sign the guys they want and develop the picks that they want. Or would this cause more work? I feel it might be less as the handful of guys who don't want the AHL, you can skip for doing upgrades thus eliminating going through all rosters. Most likely keeping the AHL unless majority want to get rid of it. I thought I should bring up the option of removing it as a handful of GMs have mentioned disliking the AHL on this site and on other sim sites. |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 6, 2021 10:03:08 GMT -8
Removing the 2nd rd of the draft is to do more with creating players and the time it takes to do so. So by adding more rounds, it doesn't necessarily make you create more players. If we go and do 5 rounds, let's say as an example, realistically how many really will be on an AHL or NHL roster in 2 seasons' time? Probably 2 at best, so you can save yourself time by not really creating those players, and keeping a tab of them by essentially making a list of the non-created prospects and their overalls. Super simple. If someone decides to boost them up and make them an AHL player, then you can create them afterwards. It's a simple fix that doesn't have to strain yourself in the creation process right away. We can also add a restriction of how many 19 year olds play in the AHL as well so that you don't have to make a bunch of mid-high 50s guys solely for the purpose of one AHL season. Say 2 or 3 max underage AHL players (19 year olds). It's stuff like this that will still make the AHL simple. I like and I hate the AHL because I'm a GM and I'm the simmer. As a GM in the league, I like the AHL and everything that goes with it. As the simmer of the league, I dislike the AHL because it can be time consumming if teams don't have their rosters up to date and at times it seems way more work than it's worth. So it might be time, then, to start looking at a secondary simmer for the sole purpose of simulating the AHL season. I absolutely understand where you're coming from and why this is being proposed - it takes a massive weight off your shoulders and you can focus on one thing, the NHL, what the majority of the GM's care about. But we also don't want to tow that line where this league becomes too simplistic, as well. Some GM's here actually signed up for a challenge, and want to succeed in said challenge by doing the hard work from the ground up, which means the AHL. I just think the Taxi Squad isn't it. I'll also get this off my chest as well - EA NHL GM Leagues get very quickly conformed to one thing, and that's a set of players that are always going to be good throughout, and there are very few, if at all, differences to that. We see the McDavid's and the Landeskog's and the Matthews always on top. Part of me wants that AHL so I can build a new star, and people can say 'There's the league where Steve Moses is an absolute beast at 88 overall at 34 years old'. It makes the league different from the rest, instead of 'Oh, well the top prospects will just be the best'. I like a little variety to my sim leagues. If we go to the taxi squad, we're becoming just another league. Also also, I'd like to see European free agents come in, say we have a random guy come in and he 'tears up the european league', comes in at like an 83 or 84, that kinda thing. Or even a twilight career story, like Joel Lundqvist wanting his last hurrah in the NHL, is an 82, and wants to sign with a Stanley Cup contender so that he can finally one-up his twin brother Henrik or something. Again, I'm all for experimenting and changes that benefit the GM's. The Taxi Squad idea, in my opinion, just isn't the right one. |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 6, 2021 10:05:18 GMT -8
And please, don't take my ranty posts as me expressing my displeasure about anything going on in this league - this league has been run great, and I know it'll continue to do so in the seasons to come. I just truly think simplifying the AHL and making a Taxi Squad situation is a bad idea, that's all.
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 10:21:39 GMT -8
Does anyone remember who posted the draft picks overalls on how they developed over 5 years I think it was and what league that was in?
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Post by Detroit Red Wings GM on May 6, 2021 10:40:08 GMT -8
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 10:43:48 GMT -8
Ya so I was right 2nd rounders after 5 seasons turn into 4th line guys at best. System is a bit different I think now though but not much |
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Post by Bad News Islanders GM on May 6, 2021 10:59:12 GMT -8
It's as if nobody focuses on their second round talent at all, and the league doesn't do anything to help those second rounders at all. That's where my issue lies, since we're all too focused on the top talent, and forgetting the fact that there have been guys who were plucked in the late rounds, and were even undrafted and became stars.
I want to see that.
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Post by LA Kings GM on May 6, 2021 11:06:07 GMT -8
Ya so I was right 2nd rounders after 5 seasons turn into 4th line guys at best. System is a bit different I think now though but not much A handful of guys ended up as good top nine or even top six forwards (84+). I think thats pretty much ideal. |
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Post by Carolina Hurricanes GM on May 6, 2021 11:10:25 GMT -8
Doing sims over at Rockem, I definitely get where DET is coming from. I like having the AHL personally. I think it allows the growth to be a little more realistic. I’ve managed to bring along 2nd RD guys when I was at Hockleague, and at Rockem. It takes a little longer, but they can get there if you try, and don’t just blow them off because they are rated lower.
I think when you start getting into 3rd + rounds, as sweet as that would be, it’s just not realistic in this format. There are too many restrictions on what you can/can’t do in game. I just can’t even imagine how annoying, and time consuming that would get setting that all up.
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Post by Carolina Hurricanes GM on May 6, 2021 11:13:49 GMT -8
Also, NYI might have a point on the splitting up sim duties. There are workarounds for roster sharing (if you don’t already know, hit me up), and you could probably set that up pretty easily.
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 11:32:27 GMT -8
Ya so I was right 2nd rounders after 5 seasons turn into 4th line guys at best. System is a bit different I think now though but not much A handful of guys ended up as good top nine or even top six forwards (84+). I think thats pretty much ideal. I’m talking 2nd round only. Not one guy made top 9 or top 6 |
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Post by Tampa Bay Lightning GM on May 6, 2021 12:00:50 GMT -8
Also, NYI might have a point on the splitting up sim duties. There are workarounds for roster sharing (if you don’t already know, hit me up), and you could probably set that up pretty easily. Wings doesn’t care he’s not saying he doesn’t want to sim the ahl. Was mostly brought up by me and Buffalo in a group chat |
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